Yes, but I think it's darker. There is a desire, perhaps a drive, toward damnation, toward the actual willful pursuit of separation from the divine and embrace of whatever seems abject or abjected from that divine, toward a disavowal of one's own soul, that is, I believe, real -- at least with such reality as such desires have. I have experienced this. And it is an easy desire to pursue, though it cannot ever be obtained because it is based on a fundamental illusion. But that doesn't stop some of us from trying. Virgil knew it (through Dido), Eliot knew it. Dante knew it. Shakespeare knew it. And just for contrast, I have the impression that Milton didn't, nor did dear innocent pedagogical and Pelagian Ezra Pound. That's why Eliot always teased Pound for having only a n impoverished concept of hell as hell for other people. Facilis descensus averno.
I want to thank you deeply for this post. It's this sort of paradox of metanoia, of the pain of keeping thy mind in hell and not despairing, of the pain of realizing my sinfulness and brokeness and yet not denying Christ the ability to heal it or forgive me of it, of the holiness of God meeting a lowly proud person like me and bringing me to humility only for me to learn that it is here, in the reality of things, of myself, that I encounter God and the self is dissolved to ashes and God's Love begins it's work in me. This quote particularly struck me as it confirmed for me much and taught me much more: "Only those with a genuine inner awakening, then, can be tempted to “desire damnation.” I think this underlies St. Silouan’s justly famous, though rather enigmatic, advice: “Keep thy mind in hell and despair not.” This state of mind, we might say, is hell; it’s an inward crucifixion and it pains us. We know we can’t do anything about it; we can only endure it. We cannot go back and undo the now recognizably evil things we have done to ourselves and others, no more than Scrooge could alter what had been — though he could alter what would be. But we are forced to rely entirely on Christ – which is right where Christ would have us. We cannot be, nor should we be, sure of ourselves; our self-confidence must be eroded, and even our self-hatred reduced to ashes. We depend on him, who is both our merciful judge and our relentless redeemer. But, even in the hells we have insisted on putting ourselves in, we still mustn’t indulge in despair. “From the desire of damnation, Good Lord deliver us.” Thank you for this greatly needed spiritual food.
Thank you for the comment qualifying/nuancing DBHs universalism. I recently had a young lady ask me about the implications of universalism as a friend we have in common was inspired by your brother but I gathered that our friend in common hadn’t actually read DBHs book (I have only read his Doors and Roland). I encouraged the young lady to examine her motives for finding the idea attractive. As far as the prayer goes, I have many friends with mental health difficulties who would very much appreciate it.
I had never heard of you before December 31st. You know how it is with the Internet, and though I can't be certain, I think I found you through William Tighe's Miscellany.
In any case, the article is extraordinary, roils my mind in the best of ways, and though a month from now, I may, trembling with anxiety, have decided you're a heretic! a heretic!, the article makes a month's membership, at least, certainly worth my while.
I'm sure I was more heretical before I became Orthodox a month and a half ago. Being heretical is no longer an option for me, not that it was ever a great temptation. Besides, most self-styled "heretics" today are almost an insult to the more sincere and less self-conscious heretics of the past, and I don't want to be lumped in with that. Anyway, welcome -- even if only for this month (though I hope you will stick around a while longer)!
Thank you for this. I can only extend a knowing glance similar to the one that Williams and Eliot shared. As the latter put it:
"And last, the rending pain of re-enactment
Of all that you have done, and been; the shame
Of motives late revealed, and the awareness
Of things ill done and done to others' harm
Which once you took for exercise of virtue.
Then fools' approval stings, and honour stains."
Powerful quote. Profoundly moving, too.
The dove descending breaks the air
With flame of incandescent terror
Of which the tongues declare
The one discharge from sin and error.
The only hope, or else despair
Lies in the choice of pyre or pyre—
To be redeemed from fire by fire.
Who then devised the torment? Love.
Love is the unfamiliar Name
Behind the hands that wove
The intolerable shirt of flame
Which human power cannot remove.
We only live, only suspire
Consumed by either fire or fire.
Yes, but I think it's darker. There is a desire, perhaps a drive, toward damnation, toward the actual willful pursuit of separation from the divine and embrace of whatever seems abject or abjected from that divine, toward a disavowal of one's own soul, that is, I believe, real -- at least with such reality as such desires have. I have experienced this. And it is an easy desire to pursue, though it cannot ever be obtained because it is based on a fundamental illusion. But that doesn't stop some of us from trying. Virgil knew it (through Dido), Eliot knew it. Dante knew it. Shakespeare knew it. And just for contrast, I have the impression that Milton didn't, nor did dear innocent pedagogical and Pelagian Ezra Pound. That's why Eliot always teased Pound for having only a n impoverished concept of hell as hell for other people. Facilis descensus averno.
I want to thank you deeply for this post. It's this sort of paradox of metanoia, of the pain of keeping thy mind in hell and not despairing, of the pain of realizing my sinfulness and brokeness and yet not denying Christ the ability to heal it or forgive me of it, of the holiness of God meeting a lowly proud person like me and bringing me to humility only for me to learn that it is here, in the reality of things, of myself, that I encounter God and the self is dissolved to ashes and God's Love begins it's work in me. This quote particularly struck me as it confirmed for me much and taught me much more: "Only those with a genuine inner awakening, then, can be tempted to “desire damnation.” I think this underlies St. Silouan’s justly famous, though rather enigmatic, advice: “Keep thy mind in hell and despair not.” This state of mind, we might say, is hell; it’s an inward crucifixion and it pains us. We know we can’t do anything about it; we can only endure it. We cannot go back and undo the now recognizably evil things we have done to ourselves and others, no more than Scrooge could alter what had been — though he could alter what would be. But we are forced to rely entirely on Christ – which is right where Christ would have us. We cannot be, nor should we be, sure of ourselves; our self-confidence must be eroded, and even our self-hatred reduced to ashes. We depend on him, who is both our merciful judge and our relentless redeemer. But, even in the hells we have insisted on putting ourselves in, we still mustn’t indulge in despair. “From the desire of damnation, Good Lord deliver us.” Thank you for this greatly needed spiritual food.
Thank you for the comment qualifying/nuancing DBHs universalism. I recently had a young lady ask me about the implications of universalism as a friend we have in common was inspired by your brother but I gathered that our friend in common hadn’t actually read DBHs book (I have only read his Doors and Roland). I encouraged the young lady to examine her motives for finding the idea attractive. As far as the prayer goes, I have many friends with mental health difficulties who would very much appreciate it.
I had never heard of you before December 31st. You know how it is with the Internet, and though I can't be certain, I think I found you through William Tighe's Miscellany.
In any case, the article is extraordinary, roils my mind in the best of ways, and though a month from now, I may, trembling with anxiety, have decided you're a heretic! a heretic!, the article makes a month's membership, at least, certainly worth my while.
I'm sure I was more heretical before I became Orthodox a month and a half ago. Being heretical is no longer an option for me, not that it was ever a great temptation. Besides, most self-styled "heretics" today are almost an insult to the more sincere and less self-conscious heretics of the past, and I don't want to be lumped in with that. Anyway, welcome -- even if only for this month (though I hope you will stick around a while longer)!
I appreciate so very how you stir my thouhhts to think on the Good, True, and Beautiful.